TRANSCRIPT VIDEO ID 5781 I ASCO26 Miyahira Knudsen - Women in Science
Dr. Knudsen, thanks so much for joining us.
Karen Knudsen: Thank you for having me. It's really great to see you.
Andrea Miyahira: I've only touched on a few highlights of your career, but you've had an incredible career path, so tell us about it.
Karen Knudsen: First and foremost, I am a scientist. I will always be a scientist. As you know, translational prostate cancer has always been my space. In my fellowship, we were the first to define how it is that steroids drive cell cycle progression in prostate cancer, and then thinking through what are the cell cycle alterations that actually lend itself toward therapeutic intervention, working with CDK4/6 inhibitors, and thinking through the implications of things like RB loss, which we know is a driver, a major driver of development of castrate-resistant disease. So that's how we started off in the scientific thinking, and then that matured into thinking through how a DNA damage is impacted by androgen signaling. And we're the first to show through PCF funding that androgens drive or really do control double-strand DNA break repair and that that has implications for how to treat prostate cancer patients.
I'm really excited that also one of my former fellows, Matt Schiewer, was the first to propose PARP inhibitors for use in prostate cancer because of this intricate link between androgen signaling and double-strand DNA break repair. And so all those years later, that then led to a major PCF Challenge Award that was part of the TOPARP study and changed practice. So just incredibly enthusiastic about what PCF funding has meant for our ability to transform the lives of men with prostate cancer.
So I am a scientist, but I have also been fortunate enough to hold a number of leadership roles leading one of the NCI-designated comprehensive cancer centers at Jefferson, and also serving as EVP of oncology services. So when I was at Jefferson, I woke up every day thinking about how to get science to people and running the science and oncology for what became a 17-hospital system across two states. Loved what I did, but was recruited away to lead the American Cancer Society to bring that organization back to health and wellness. And I love that organization, really focusing around research, advocacy, and patient support and what that meant for all cancer patients across the country. And really, so proud of that team and the impact that it has.
But could not resist the temptation to transform and help grow the Parker Institute, which is a complete unique model of one, really an accelerator think tank, funding science, taking those technologies across all of our investigators and sites around the country, and bundling those into different strategies to get the science to people, either patenting and licensing out or starting new companies ourselves. We're really proud that we have 17 companies in our portfolio, some of which are prostate cancer-focused, as we were talking about, and in clinical stage. So we're both a cancer funding supporter, but also an innovation engine and an investor.
Andrea Miyahira: Well, that's really incredible. So let's talk about leadership. You've had a lot of leadership roles. What do you think are the key attributes of a good leader and how have you applied those in your roles?
Karen Knudsen: Yeah. Well, there are a lot of different mechanisms to lead teams and I think it's got to be fit for purpose for the team that you have. I think that the leadership style that works best for me is more of a transformative leadership style to inspire people, to rally behind a vision, and to see in the team, not just the executive team, but throughout the whole of the organization, how what they do on any given day trues up to the mission of the organization. That was how we led and grew at Jefferson, it's how we led and grew at the American Cancer Society, and it's how I'm leading and growing at the Parker Institute.
Our goal is to develop and increase access to breakthrough cancer therapies. That's a bold goal for a not-for-profit, to bring things all the way through to commercialization, but that is our goal. And so I feel like if I'm doing my job as CEO, that people come into the Parker Institute every day and they understand how what it is that they do is going to help develop a breakthrough cancer therapy. How is it going to help increase access to a breakthrough cancer therapy? And if they can't say that, then I'm not doing my job.
And so that's, for me, I think the style that works. And then of course, hiring the people who share that passion and who are relentless in pursuing that passion and able to work with each other to get it done. And when you've developed that great team dynamic and you look around the table and you know you have all the right people, it's a really magical feeling. I know you know what that's like.
Andrea Miyahira: Thank you. So do you have any advice for anyone who wants to follow in your footsteps how to recognize the leadership positions and opportunities and know when is the right time to take that next step?
Karen Knudsen: Yeah. Well, one of the things that I've really appreciated is learning from others and learning from peers, including through the Prostate Cancer Foundation, and especially through the women's network that we put together to put women more in way of each other to think about not just the opportunities you took, but the ones you didn't and why. And because sometimes those are the stories you don't hear. So I think using a peer network to push assumptions, to seek guidance and wisdom from others about pros and cons of different positions I think can be really helpful.
But I think that the advice I would give is that if you have a passion, if you can see a solution to something and would get inspired every day by growing that, then do it. But make sure you've got the right team under you, make sure you've got the right peer network that's going to help you continue to grow in that role. And you never stop learning from all of those individuals.
Andrea Miyahira: Thank you. And can you talk about barriers and barriers that you face throughout your career and advice that you have for overcoming barriers?
Karen Knudsen: I think no matter who you are, there are barriers that exist and it's all in how you navigate them, I think. In healthcare and executive leadership, you're often, very often the only woman in the room. Our chairs at Jefferson, I think there were 16 chairs and when I left, I was the only female chair. But I really tried not to let that bother me or get ... So for me, that was just part of the healthcare unique system. I think that's changing. But you know and I know we have a lot to do for women to see themselves in leadership roles in science and medicine because they do drop out along the way.
And so it's interesting for me to think about like, "Why didn't I drop out?" And I think I was just very fortunate to have a good support system around me, a family that we made decisions together, that they knew if I was going to take this leadership role, that it meant something for everybody in the family. And that was one way I navigated is I always felt like talking to my husband and my sons about making a decision and how it would impact them, but also getting that support from them of saying, "You know, Mom," or, "Karen," from my husband's perspective, "we want you to do this. We're behind you. We're super proud of you. Go do it." And that's really helped me. I know it sounds like a small thing, but it actually really wasn't. And I love that.
But also, that peer network for the days when things seem really challenging to have the phone-a-friend of you know who that's going to be. And that was true for healthcare. It was true at the American Cancer Society. And now I feel like I've got a really good peer network of CEOs as well that I can call because we all are living the same life and being able to draw on those experiences and just be vulnerable with them and say, "Look, I've got this issue, what should I do?" It's really a good thing. Keeps you going.
Andrea Miyahira: And do you have any tips for resilience or staying motivated?
Karen Knudsen: All of us have those days when you wonder, "Why am I doing this? It doesn't need to be this hard." And I think accepting that that's normal, but being able to step back and focus on the 10 things that are going well I think is a way to kind of re-center. I tend to be pretty impatient as a leader. I want my teams to go fast. If we're going to fail, we're going to fail fast. And I recognize not everybody works at that pace. So I have to catch myself often of saying, "Okay, I understand we've got to slow down a little bit." You know me, it's not my native state. And so that's one of the places where I think I can also find resilience is when I'm asking everyone to slow down or recognizing I need to slow down and just step back for a minute.
Andrea Miyahira: It was actually really refreshing to hear you talk about how you have a phone-a-friend and other CEOs because so many women have imposter syndrome. So talk about that and how even people at the highest levels still face imposter syndrome.
Karen Knudsen: Oh, I absolutely think that's the case. And I think for people who are in leadership, every leadership role you take is a stretch, right? There's some element of it that you haven't done before. And so I think that's what in part breeds the imposter syndrome piece, like, "Oh my gosh. I am not an expert in ..." And the data say that if a job says that there are 10 things you need to be able to do, that on average men will look at it and say, okay, "I can do three of them so I'm totally perfect for this job." And women will look at it and say, "I can only do nine so I shouldn't apply." So in general, that's just a difference that I didn't make that up, that's actually just in the business literature.
So I think that's understanding what drives that syndrome I think can be very helpful, that not everybody has that mindset and it's okay to take a stretch. But then if you're going to stretch, what's your gap? What's the thing that you feel least comfortable with? And then how are you going to fill that gap in finding that phone-a-friend or the person or the group, the guidance that's going to help you fill that gap in knowledge that you don't know?
Here's an example. So at the Parker Institute, as I said, we have the science component, we have the intellectual property piece, and the patenting licensing out. All that's very familiar to me, all very business-oriented toward the goal of escalating science and getting it to people. And then what we have now, we have these portfolio companies, and I do serve as on board of both privately held and publicly traded companies. So I'm very comfortable with governance and anybody who's a CEO really appreciates great governance because of course you report to a board. So done all that.
But we also are now, as a major investor, on the precipice of developing our own venture fund. And so that's something I've never done before. I know I need to have people around me and advisors who are going to help us put that together in a way that's going to be successful. And so that's a stretch. But I find that really energizing actually. So I try not to focus on what I don't know. I try to focus on what is that stretch piece and how am I going to get the team together that's going to allow us to be successful?
I really think a strength of a team is that everybody's bringing something to the table and that we all recognize that value in each other. To me, that's a great team. And so I'm really grateful for my team at the Parker Institute that's all bringing something to the table toward that goal of the venture piece and excited about what our future holds.
Andrea Miyahira: Thank you. So we this past year celebrated the 10th anniversary of the PCF Women in Science Forum, which we renamed two years ago as the Gender Equity Networking Initiative. And you started that along with Lorelai Mucci and Himisha Beltran and myself, so I'm just so proud of that initiative and how it keeps growing. But let's talk about pipeline and the pipeline of women in science. What can we do as a research community, as science and medicine community to continue to nurture and grow that pipeline?
Karen Knudsen: Yeah. No, you're bringing up such a good point. And I have to say, Andrea, it was such an honor to work with you and Lorelei and Misha to put that together. I'll never forget that of just us recognizing that there are too few women who were even applying for the multi-investigator grants at the PCF and how do we solve for that gap? And I think I'm very proud of what we did. I think we did solve for that gap. I know we did.
And I think the stat I'll never forget was that we were asking people to come to the PCF retreat a day ahead on their own dime to come and attend this, we weren't sure how it was going to look, half-day retreat and that we invited a hundred women and 96 came. And that told me something about the demand for that. And I love how it evolved of discussing not just science, highlighting careers of people who we wanted to understand their career track and having them talk. Like Maha, for example, I remember was a really great one, but also bringing in executive coaches and doing some practicing executive coaches and roundtables, but then bringing in high school students to experience what they were like. And I remember the first time we brought in the high school students from San Diego and I thought they'd be overwhelmed in this room full of overachievers and not want to ask questions. But do you remember? They were so inquisitive and brilliant and passionate and courageous. And I remember one raising her hand and saying, "I'm going to be an OB/GYN" in high school and really taking that on.
So it really emboldened me. So I think more things like that can be what gets done for women in science, no question. But we have to really support each other. So as you know, the data show that there are more women than men going into MD and PhD programs, but the attrition goes as you go through the ladder. And so you start to dwindle at the level of full professor and you definitely dwindle at the level of dean, chair, cancer center director. And that's something that is getting better but not fast enough.
So I think showing women, giving them support of how to get that done through platforms like what we set up at PCF can be very helpful. But I think there are small things anybody can do on any day, which is if you get asked to do something, to give a talk, speak at a meeting and you can't do it, nominate someone. "I can't do it, but I think my colleague would be fantastic." You get asked to serve on a board or serve on an advisory board and you can't do it. Nominate somebody. So I think it's a ... This is not the phone-a-friend, it's a tap the friend onto the shoulder. And we all know brilliant women in our field and pulling each other up has to be part of the answer.
Andrea Miyahira: Well, thank you so much. And if there are any exciting initiatives that you're working on right now that you'd like to highlight, I'd love to hear about them.
Karen Knudsen: Yeah. I mean, we have so much going on at the Parker Institute. It's really quite incredible. We've just announced our new scientific priorities and we'll be of course increasing our focus in immuno-oncology, meaning really every modality, cell-based therapy, biospecifics, T-cell engagers of all kinds, but also antibody drug conjugates, radioligands, things that are kind of important in prostate cancer, and continuing to work with those, but also now therapeutic vaccines. We're very excited about what therapeutic vaccines will mean for prevention of recurrence and what we hope will be ultimately just cancer prevention and interception overall.
I think we're entering a very exciting phase of oncology when truly every modality will have a root in the immune system. I know you're originally trained as an immuno-oncologist and so you get that more than anybody. But I think we're at this point where I think we can cure a lot of the difficult-to-treat cancers and we see ourselves as starting to be at the forefront of that. So very excited about that initiative.
Andrea Miyahira: Well, I'm so excited to hear about that too, and thanks again for coming and sharing this with us today.
Karen Knudsen: You bet. Thank you for having me. We look forward to doing more.